Any Appetite for a New <$10K Double?

[wvfred]

If I had a choice I would want a 450NE.Bottom of the list for a true stopping rifle but a stopping none the less.Also it wouldn't hurt the 450/400,470 and 500 market.

 

[Huvius]

If you’re thinking economy in the build, wouldn’t a .458 WinMag make sense as an accompaniment to the .375H&H?
Same formula as the Whitworth bolt guns and they were quite successful by most accounts.

 

[cajunchefray]

I would be interested if in 450/400 for sure.
An under $10,000 double would be a seller I think
Trijicon RMR mount

Another vote for the 450/400. I owned a Sabatti and liked it, once I got it regulated with reloads. and a Trijicon RMR.

I prefer a proper French built double. The challenge is the marketing play and ammo.
Perhaps a marketing play resurgence of the ".400 Jeffery", but with ammo supply, that is the challenge.

All it takes is to convince an ammo manufacturer to produce. Good Luck.
Have 2 loads available, 400 grain loads for the African "Big 5", and regulated 300 grain loads for everything else.

 

[KY Hunting Guy]

I would seriously consider one in a 450/400, so that is my vote.

 

[Russ16]

450/400 is a great entry level double caliber. I would only want one in a try DG caliber and I don’t want a rimless one of those so wouldn’t be interested in .375.

I’m very interested in a good shooting but plan and durable double I could hunt buffalo and possibly elephant with.

 

[Dublinpiper90]

I know I mentioned earlier in post for a 375 flanged but I’d definitely get in the line for a 450/400

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Of what has been offered, .450/400.

My suggestion would be a .500ne. You won’t cannibalize any of your other caliber sales. If you make one in a true double weight, not 9lbs. I think you’ll have a winner.

He 100% would cannibalize sales of both the 470 Elan and the 450/400 Elan if he offered a sub $10k 500NE. My guess is he’s cannibalize 90% or more of them or more especially if it’s in a true double weight gun. Why would someone spent $17k or more when they could spend less than $10k for the same gun with lower grade wood and no engraving? The Elan is a stepping stone double and IMO the best current production sub $25k double on the market. If you want better you need to find a used Hyem or wait for one to be built to your specs.

 

[Russ16]

As an alternative theory maybe f d a caliber that isn’t readily available. A hand load only special that won’t detract from other sales. An affordable gun for the owner willing to put in the work to make their own loads etc. maybe make a deal with a die maker to include dies in the package. Could also offer it in 375 and 45-70 as mentioned.

Just trying to see a path to an affordable rimmed DG caliber that doesn’t eat into your other market.

I’d be interested in a hand loader only caliber. Might be fun. But not a new invention caliber something that has fallen by the wayside but is usable with modern components. I need it do some thinking on what that is but I’m sure it’s out there.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

As an alternative theory maybe f d a caliber that isn’t readily available. A hand load only special that won’t detract from other sales. An affordable gun for the owner willing to put in the work to make their own loads etc. maybe make a deal with a die maker to include dies in the package. Could also offer it in 375 and 45-70 as mentioned.

Just trying to see a path to an affordable rimmed DG caliber that doesn’t eat into your other market.

I’d be interested in a hand loader only caliber. Might be fun. But not a new invention caliber something that has fallen by the wayside but is usable with modern components. I need it do some thinking on what that is but I’m sure it’s out there.

Great idea in theory but that means they need to also handload to regulate it. That takes time, and time is money.

I suspect this is the very reason why they now just offer 375 H&H and not 375 Flange despite that being a popular suggestion on this thread.

To cut cost down they’re gonna reduce the wood grade and scrolling. I’d also think removing any sort of special extractors and the machining time/materials for non-rimmed cartridges would also help further reduce cost but I’m not an engineer or PM.

 

[aminkus]

While i would love any caliber greater then a 45-70 i would LOVE ( i will repeat love ) a great classic double at $10,000. For many hunters who can only dream of owning a proper double $10,000 is a very fair price and a great entry point into the world of doubles. That being said i would only buy one if it was a caliber that i could use on safari in the bush.

 

[NDWoods]

I would wonder if a low enough cost reliable double in a classic double rifle NE caliber wouldn't open markets that don't currently exist?

That is 100% my vote. Offer it in 500NE and I am a buyer in 2027. I do not want a $20k double so I am not considering one of the other models. You would absolutely gain some of the $10k-ish bolt gun market.

I get your concern for cannibalism but you would bring in far more new customers due to the price point.

 

[Russ16]

Great idea in theory but that means they need to also handload to regulate it. That takes time, and time is money.

I suspect this is the very reason why they now just offer 375 H&H and not 375 Flange despite that being a popular suggestion on this thread.

To cut cost down they’re gonna reduce the wood grade and scrolling. I’d also think removing any sort of special extractors and the machining time/materials for non-rimmed cartridges would also help further reduce cost but I’m not an engineer or PM.

I take your point. For me the cheaper rifle pays for the money to regulate it which is fun. I’d rather spend money one working on loads to regulate the gun than engraving or wood. But that’s just me.

 

[Woodcarver]

All,

As some of you know, I manage a brand of double rifles (Chapuis). I am kicking around some ideas for 2026 new product introductions. One of them is to offer a basic model with no engraving, 2-star wood and no special finish, that would retail for less than $10,000 in 2026.

The calibers I'm thinking about are .375 H&H and .45-70. Configuration would be the same as my African doubles (large action, 26" barrels, express sights, double triggers, ejectors, manual safety).

Why the .45-70? Because with it, hunters could also use it here in the US, especially in states that allow straight-wall cartridges for big game. Why no .450-400 and .470? Because doing so would necessarily cannibalize from my other two lines, the Iphisi and the Elan Classic & Artisan, which are selling well.

Also, I'm thinking of including mounts for RMR red dots on all my African-sized doubles, free of charge.

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this, as well as any suggestions you may have (realistic!) for anything else.

Thank you all in advance, as always.

I would wonder if a low enough cost reliable double in a classic double rifle NE caliber wouldn't open markets that don't currently exist?

I can only see two reasons to buy a Sabatti, one would be because the buyer REALLY wants a double and that is absolutely all he can afford.... you should be able to tap into that market. The other might be that they look good. I suppose a 3rd reason might be that a buyer is boondoggleed into believing a Sabatti is of good quality but that one is self defeating

Already have a Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74R and love it. If I could add a proper weight, plain Jane Chapuis in 450NE, (or, even better, in 450 #2) under $10k, I'd order it tomorrow.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I take your point. For me the cheaper rifle pays for the money to regulate it which is fun. I’d rather spend money one working on loads to regulate the gun than engraving or wood. But that’s just me.

100% understand your thoughts and like the idea in theory BUT now you’re asking a manufacturer to ship a gun from the factory that hasn’t been regulated or potentially test shot? What if there’s an issue with how the barrels are put together and the buyer can’t get it to regulate or the barrels intersect? At $10k I’d expect the factory to get involved and make it right and wouldn’t roll the dice if they wouldn’t. That’s a lot of money for a manufacturer to risk on returns/warranty work when they could spend a little more time/money from the start making sure it regulates/shoots.

Just like the cannibalization topic. I’m saying this as a current Chapuis owner, they’d 100% cannibalize most of their Elan market, and at what increase in sales? Do they sell enough additional units to offset the almost 40-50% cost reduction? I personally don’t think so because there are already sub $10k DR’s out there. The customer buying a $5-10k bolt gun can afford an Elan in a few years if he/she wants one with a little planning. If there was a $10k NE rifle from Chapuis, I wouldn’t have bought either of the Elan’s I’ve owned and I’d venture to guess neither of the other Chapuis NE owners on here would’ve.

We have a tendency to look at what we personally want. I’m making my comments as if it was my company and I’m trying to grow sales/profits while maintaining what we have in terms of market share. This is typically best done by finding a void/hole in the market or other manufacturers offering. We (the members of AH) are a very small segment of the gun market. It’s why you’re seeing big manufacturers like CZ go away from the Magnum receivers.

Everyone responding wants a double rifle and aspires to own one if they don’t already. If Tom launches a sub $10k NE gun how many eventually step up and purchase the $15-20k model from them? I know I wouldn’t because I’d step up into the next tier of brands/guns with the ultimate goal of eventually getting into a British gun. Now if they make a 375 Flange, I think you get a portion of their customers to eventually jump up to a NE caliber because the needle is in the arm, they’re now hooked on a double rifle and had a good experience with the brand. They also get the customer who’s maybe stepped up to the next tier or two of brands in a NE caliber but wants something light for cats or Plainsgame

 

[Kharn]

Where are the "hidden costs" in manufacturing Double Rifles, can anyone bullet point/ layer it?

 

[coreydb]

I agree with your logic. You're targeting the US/CAN markets and the flexibility handloads can provide, offers a wide range of capability. Go any higher in caliber/straight wall configurations and you drastically reduce if not eliminate your potential target audience. The calibers and brass are readily available here, same with ammo. Barrels could also be regulated a little differently for the hunting on this continent. Depending on the price point, I'll buy one in .375 H&H.

 

[ET1775]

Yes, very interested in a quality, sub-10k double. I don't need engraving and large, tacky branding. I want a plain, solid, correctly proportioned, durable, reliable, accurate double that I can hunt the planet with and not lose sleep over wondering if it will work when I need it to. The option for multiple barrel sets would be a welcome feature that could be added later.

 

[IvW]

Why not just offer it as you mention in a plain Jane no frills double in whatever caliber they now produce?
If they making money in 375 H&H there should be no cost difference between calibers. The entire process of making the double rifle be it 375 H&H, 450/400 NE, 470 NE, 500 NE is the same.....

 

[IvW]

Also look at marketing multiple barrel sets......eg. 450/400 NE and 9.3x74R......

 

[Wyfox]

My opinion is only offer it in 450-400 as a plain jane DG working rifle.
You already have the Iphisi in 375 for similar price, so I don't see a reason to offer it in this model unless its substantially less.

Definitely offer it with the RMR mount, it's becoming the standard pattern for many brands of red dots nowadays.